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Hughena1

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Posts: 3
 #1 
That is not a deterrent a fine like $1000. Pocket money to drug dealers. Definately higher sentences are needed. However as I have a Grandson in jail. Resulting because of his addiction to ICE and crimes related; know that he became a dealer to fund his own habit. Never any spare cash. In fact I have lost all major belongings because of the access he had to these and selling on. I know first hand never any left over cash. A lot of folk who do the open dealing would be addicts where the heads if such trafficking remain anonymous.
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Bruce

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Posts: 37
 #2 
i am not sure what is meant by "2/3 of people searched are innocent".  this means 1/3 are guilty, so if 1/3 are guilty of drug carrying or usage, then surely that means that strip searching them is a correct process?  It must be about the best criminal catching ever!! it is catching a high proportion an of illegal activity.
having said that i do think that it has to be done in a humane and considerate manner and warnings of the type suggested should be made.  if being strip searched will so traumatic for any individual, male or female, then the warning alone should be enough to keep them off drugs, and if they still carry them in spite of that then it should indicate they need further counselling, psychiatric treatment or punishment.  as a person who has avoided drugs of any kind [except alchohol, i have to admit] because of a belief that you never know what side effects you may get, i don't have a lot of sympathy with users.  but something has to be done to stop them for the long term problems this brings for all of us, users and non-users alike.
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Greg

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Posts: 156
 #3 
What would contributors think of a combination of decriminalisation of users with counselling and rehab plus very heavy penalties for the criminals who import, manufacture, distribute the drugs, to make it unprofitable?

Many thanks to all contributors. I am learning  and hope others are too.
Lets get more info.

A senior MP has sent  a good bit of information about current laws which I have not had time to review.
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Greg

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 #4 
Is it unreasonable to believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty? Who can tell me how many strip searches were conducted during 2018 and 2019 and how many convictions were recorded or not recorded because it was a first offence. Malcolm may be right that near 100% of those strip searched were guilty of possessing or having consumed illegal drugs. 

Who can come up with official figures on the damage caused by these festival drugs and the damage caused by alcohol. I cannot help but feel the government is attacking young people unable to defend themselves in a way that it would not do at the Institute of Company directors annual conference or the door to the parliamentary chamber.

I am totally opposed to drugs but believe that laws should be enforced equally.

Do others think the " 1 year community service & $1,000 fine" for a "well know to police" drug dealer with $10,000 cash in a bag outside the music festival,  is okay? To me it is just an absurdity and entitles anyone to think the drug dealers must be big political donors.


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Greg

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Posts: 156
 #5 

Politicians insist on strip searching innocent teens and youths at music festivals with unknown psychological effects. Yet the Sydney Morning Herald reports today on p 12  
that 2 men  (1 a well known drug dealer) with  empty drug bags and $10,000 in cash was arrested outside a music festival. They were found guilty. They were each sentenced to only  1 year community service and fined $1,000. That is simply encouraging the drug trade.

15 years gaol and $1m fine each would stop the drug trade dead in its tracks! Why do we allow politicians to favour the criminals over their victims or innocent festival goers who have never taken drugs in their lives?

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Malcolm1

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Posts: 2
 #6 
A brief reply to Greg's questions.

I'm not sure that "two thirds of the people strip searched are innocent".  I feel that closer to 100% of the people searched to that level would have had drugs with or near them at some stage. It depends on what you consider innocent to be.
 
"Why do we not impose heavy fines and gaol sentences on the drug suppliers?"  We do.

Should festival entrances warn "By entering this festival you agree to be strip searched." - Perhaps.  A better wording might be "Drug detection dogs will patrol this venue, and you understand you may be strip searched if police suspect you may be carrying drugs...".

My main concern is that we need to consider the repercussions of what sounds like a nice idea (to ban strip searches).  I agree with several here who are concerned that dealers should be targeted and subject to the full force of the law.  If we remove strip searches as a tool then we're providing a perfect opportunity for the dealers themselves to conceal the very drugs we would prefer not to harm our young people.

Like most issues, we need to consider the big picture before reacting instinctively to a deliberately pitched headline.  Thanks for the opportunity to discuss in a sensible forum.


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Hughena1

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Posts: 3
 #7 
Well said Greg. News items do mention what is found on participants who have been strip searched. Am familiar with most by name though did not take enough notice to remember. MDMA would be one. Mostly drugs taken to music festivals, especially those which are more than one day would be ones to keep awake. LSD was available in my young twenties and prob still available or similar. Of course ICE the user can stay awake for days as U unfortunately have been familiar with. This substance is highly addicted whereas something like LSD is not likely to be.
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Greg

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Posts: 156
 #8 
This seems an important line to follow. What sort of impact have legalised drugs had on Young Dutch adults ove say the past 20 years. There would be some statistics. The US found prohibition of alcohol to not work and as far as I can see the impact of that is worse than many drugs. However, there is very credible evidence of seriously bad impact of some drugs on young minds and ice seems particularly dangerous. Perhaps removing the criminalisation for users and putting very heavy penalties on producers and distributors might make the dangerous drugs disappear. Does any body know what pills people take at music festivals and what impact they have? This is worth moving slowly on to get the facts right qand listen to all sides of the argument. A well-considered proposal by voters would carry a lot of weight.
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Barbara1

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Posts: 24
 #9 
Zelda's comments say it all - Follow the example of The Netherlands !  BTW Portugal has legalised drugs and does not imprison users, so that now there is rehabilitation which has proven to be VERY successful !!  Has deleted the drug money-making racket all together!

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Zelda2

Hub Leader
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Posts: 7
 #10 
HI, it would be a better use of resources to find the criminals that make these drugs in the first place then we not have a problem at all?
No one should be forced to strip for this, it is a violation of rights especially for women. 
Take a look at Amsterdam were drugs are legal, they have no deaths and all drugs are made safely and tested so that things like this DONT HAPPEN. 
Its only because idiots can make them in their back yard and put crap into them that causes harm. 
Zelda
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Greg

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Posts: 156
 #11 
Good to hear from people with differing views. That is what we are about. I have never taken drugs or attended a music festival. I believe drugs impact badly on brains, though the  behaviour I see in police and politicians does not seem so flash and I guess they are not  drug-damaged. if two thirds of the people strip searched are innocent then they are the ones that concern me. We are deliberately killing kids whose brains are not developed by bit testing the pills and advising them to  to take any pills of any kind. Sort of Russian Roulette with pills. This seems to be a very blunt and deadly instrument devoid of any child or human psychology.
 
Why do we not impose heavy fines and gaol sentences on the drug suppliers? Who makes these pills?  Favours from politicians, judges and Police  perhaps?

Should festival entrances warn "By entering this festival you agree to be strip searched."

Those who disagree with stopping strip searches, would you please give us your thoughts on those questions. Do not think we object to your viewpoints. We want to know what should be done and how it should be done. Your views are vital. They may prevail.

A. What is the goal and B how can we best achieve it with the least permanent damage to  those young people who never take drugs? 
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Jeanette1

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Posts: 1
 #12 
I heartily agree with Malcolm 1 - and do not support this campaign.
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Arian3

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Posts: 3
 #13 
The issue is that minors should have a parent, guardian or advocate with them. Why isn't that happening, no-one is above the law, including police!
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Malcolm1

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Posts: 2
 #14 
It is important to understand that strip-searches do not mean that the stated number of persons were all forced to strip completely naked. As I understanding it, this category of search includes even the partial removal of some clothing. Searches are not random and are only done on actual suspicion of drug presence. The media have created a distorted impression of what police do in a professional manner, using officers of the same sex as the person being searched.  While actual drugs were found in a minority of searches, that does not mean the scent of drugs was not there.  The sniffer dogs are pretty accurate. I wonder if those who are protesting the loudest have the most to hide. I do not support this campaign.
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Barbara1

Registered:
Posts: 24
 #15 
No need for forcing females to be naked when they can at least retain their underwear (which generally cannot hide much ). A female police officer can politely request to view or touch at edges of a bra just to validate there are no small objects (pills) being hidden there.


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